Why do you think a7'6" rod is short for a #5 ? 0.153 0.078 Different tools for doing different things. (Bob Norwood). Dickerson 8015 Guide Model Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #6/7, Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/3 #6, Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5/6, Dickerson 761510 RB (Ray Bergman) Fly Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 901812-C Bamboo Rod 9' 3/2 #7, Lyle Dickerson Model 6611 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 2/2 #3/4, Lyle Dickerson Model 7613 Hollow Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4/5, Lyle Dickerson Model 661510 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 3/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Guide Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801510 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 7612 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 761510 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/3, Lyle Dickerson Model 9015 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 7012 Bamboo Rod 7' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801610 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8615 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 961913 Bamboo Rod 9'6" 3/2 #7. The guy turns out to be a top casting instructor. 0.153 Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. According to Hoagy Carmichael Jr. who filmed a documentary for Boston Public TV, the Payne Rod Co. made approximately 12,000 rods during it's existence. I think we can say that adding more material to a tip section would produce more power and reducing material on the tip section will increase accuracy and delicacy of fly presentation. Hence the short butt long tip "BSAS" conformation of some of the better iterations. in practice however, there is little point in going below 7'6'', really. 25 .156 .310 (Tom Peters), Dickerson used step down ferrules, use a CSE Step down to recreate that Dickerson classic action. I think I can reply for Dennis, as I was one of the guys who measured those rods. I've mostly used it for bass. I think the perfectionist is a fine taper and rod. Even if you take off 0.006 for varnish, in case that wasnt done, its still a 7 1/2 wt. Here's a classic Winston from the Hexrod taper archive. I would agree that one system is not all encompassing and I agree with the selection of evaluating criteria you outlined. If you want to make one as a sort of standard then try a rate of taper of 13.5 thousandths per station, it gives a Gould rating of 270 which is a useful point about which to have a conversation with yourself about what you think is medium fast and what you think is fast. 13/12. There are several different specs for this taper out there, three of which I use. I would argue that the variances are due to machine error, rather than deliberate (consider that you are tapering the strips by running them thru a glorified router, excuse me milling machine, using a worn wooden pattern board running over metal rollers, to determine the taper. The Dickerson 7612 taper a smooth medium action 4 wt that is 7 1/2 long in a 2pc. 30 .216 .099 Crisp, strong, smooth, versatile. 0.111 2 piece. I would say it's a strong 7 wt, but it should work well with a 8 WF. I would go with Thramer. Is there a classic taper that roll casts better any others? I'm off to the antipodes next year, and I'm hoping that the 7'6'' #5 that should be a #4 will go with me. 8 wt 0.0830 I think of it as an 8013G. At Headwaters Bamboo Rod Company we build our rods based on proven "historical" tapers, meaning that the tapers we use were designed by Twentieth Century bamboo fly rod craftsmen. CSE makes and sells this kind of "step-down" ferrule, from tubing, as Dickerson did. Did I just read something about someone saying Dickerson rods are outclassed by today's makers? Measurements under the handle are obviously estimates. (Paul Blakley), I use the taper in Maurer's book, which is the same as Wane C's, which supposedly came from Young's mill. I beef up the last 3 inches of the tip to fit the 14/64 male ferrule. I believe he told me he placed his roll casting hinge 10"-15" above the handle, depending on rod length. More than an eight weight is required to handle the largest of flies. (Stephen Dugmore). Following tests I no longer cook UHU. They are very nice 5 weights ( IMHO it is THE 8 5 wt). by softstick 05/09/09 04:36, Post The best reason that I can give you as to why Dickersons are popular tapers (Along with another Michigan maker Paul Young) is that they are nice casting rods and fit our fishing very well. Summers & Co. - Womens Sports ApparelBob with Granddaughter Cara FlyfishingGreat Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly FishingOutdoor Writer and Used Book SalesFishing and Wing Shooting Guide ServiceGreat Lakes Charter FishingSporting JewlerCustom GunsmithingFine Hand EngravingFine Reel & Rod Cases, 90 River Road, EastTraverse City, Michigan 49696 USAPhone/Fax (231) 946-7923bobsummers@charter.net, 2222 - 7. Great conversation. I have also noticed the mention of a Dickerson 8014GS. well there is your answer. The 7613 is a wonderfully versatile taper, the rod is light in the hand, and is at home casting sizes #6 Muddlers to #16 Dry flies. On a theoretical straight line or linear taper the rod would load progressively down to the handle. The American Museum of Fly Fishing Collection 761510: 7'6" 3/2 5 wt. No question my friend John Pickard is the way to go for a Dickerson reproduction. My vote goes to L.C. All through this process you must be aware of the stress curves as well, you don't want to make changes that will cause a rod to fail. I like Paynes too! All were very powerful eight weight rods with most of the action in the upper half. I finally made one for my wife and cut one into 4 pieces for me. 95 0.3435 (Tom Bowden). the stated ferrule dimensions always follow from the TIP dimensions, not the butt dimensions. (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive), I'm grateful to you for that point because a recent post referred to straight taper Garrisons and I wonder if he meant straight stress "curves". (Will McMurrey), Just very briefly, a Castle Connell taper is a good example, where you have a curious reverse taper in the upper part of the lower half of the rod. I Have commented additionally, if trivially in a private post on the other points. The taper I used was from "The Lovely Reed." Pt 0 is the butt side of the strips. Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods. The 3 flats got averaged and put into a column in the center of the page. by avyoung 06/12/16 18:13, Post Garrison's tapers may have been all right in his day, for the equipment and applications he was designing for, i.e. I don't think anyone fishes the same. if you don't have ~ 1/64 drop over the ferrule it isn't a true taper. There should be 20 measurements not 19. The varnish is in good condition. I always encourage customers to try before they buy. (Chris Obuchowski). Very smooth and plenty of power for a 5 wt should you need it. Varnish of 0.004 subtracted. To vary the straight line you can adjust the tip dimension. (Will Price), You can adapt the taper that calls for a step down by putting a slight swell at the male ferrule end of the taper so that a super Z or super Swiss ferrule will work properly. by Lee Koch 06/12/16 21:18, Post that'd be super! One from the 1950s, one from the 1970s, and Russ Gooding's Golden Witch version. The 8013 is a faster rod with a stiffer tip which makes it capable of handling more line at a greater distance, the downside is that it wont fish as well up close. If you are building in the drop at the ferule that Dickerson used, you will usually end up using a size larger ferrule than you'd normally think. I don't find the 7'6" length to be too short. (Reed Guice). Fly Fishing Supplies & Gear. We now have solid parameters around which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics. Rods also tend to have varying sweet spots in terms of when the amount of line out feel just right. I'm not familiar with Tom Fulk's true arc taper. From 80 to 85, there is an increase of ~.070. by alpom 05/08/09 03:35, Post 48 .224 .375, I don't know how Banjo arrived at the measurements under the grip and reel seat. Dennis looked over his rod and it, too, has two nodes right next to each other. (Will McMurrey). Why? (Matthew French), Different rods, the 8014 is a true 6wt, the 8014G (G stands for guide) is a heavier rod, a point and shoot, no false cast, lay out a ton of line type rod. Dickerson Rods Notes On Rods and Models Rod Features Rod Bags & Tubes Rod Markings and Script Buyer/Collector Beware Dickerson Articles About The Model Profiles Dickerson 761510 Dickerson 8014 Guide The Tom Clark Collection Anecdotes & Unseen Photos Dickerson Guide Series The Earliest Dickerson What Are The Chances? Just for once I'm going to recommend a step down ferrule! The taper on David Ray's site is an 861711D. (Jimmy Chang), I have made rods using both tapers. . As most of you already know Paul Young was notorious for having quite a few different tapers for the same model over the course of his career. Latterly, they considered that a fiberglass butt section would solve all their troubles. What I do is look at the actual flat to flat measurements of the blank at the ferrule ends, match it against the chart for the best fit. I have one of his 7625's, and it's a great rod, being a 7613 replica. John's the guy. Tom Smithwick. Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods. I have limited the list as practical to tapers which are not obviously taken from Hexrod.net, in RodDNA, or in contemporary books such as Howells, Gould or Mauer. Digger Digere. Not that I very much care, these people have a perfect right to their willful ignorance. This means that the finished rod will cast like a ONE PIECE SLT rod. It's a 7 wt too but being a little shorter is easier on the arm and shoulder due to the shorter lever arm length. It's an Asian knockoff of a Dickerson 7012 4WT 7-0 taper. Don't leave us hangin' here with a sniper shot and leave ;-) (Mark Wendt), Truth be known, I prefer Payne to Dickerson. All of these factors when considered together give a better picture of the rod than any one does in isolation. (Timothy Troester). One of our most recognizable rod models with a deep flamed color and crisper action. Variations below this point have more to do with the character of the rod than the line weight. Only lost 1/2 inch in rod length. That's like saying that only the 49ers could find gold. I own a Thramer 6611 and 7012 HB tapers, both with Thramer cosmetics and they are both awesome rods. Click Here for Rod Raffle, Great Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly Fishing. And, after you "get used to it" you will fall in love with this rod taper. Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. 0.220 In case you didn't get the taper before, here it is: 0.066 Click Here for Rod Raffle About Bob New Rods Purchasing & Shipping Dickerson Garrison Gillum Glass & Graphite Hardy Heddon Leonard Miscellaneous Rods Orvis Books & Catalogs Other Items Payne (Jerry Foster). (Jerry Foster), For some applications, like fishing dries from a drifting boat, it could be even a bit short. So a 13 size ferrule has a female and male sleeve that is .203 and a male insert that is .1718 or 11/64's. (Henry Mitchell), Yes but those 2 particular tapers are what many Dickerson aficionados refer to as the 7613 Guide and are much more comfortable with a 6 wt line than a 5 wt. Should be a very nice rod, good Taper. by cutthroattroutnm 05/09/09 16:50, Post For each size ferrule there is a specific range of dimensions that will fit inside each size. All measurements were taken over varnish. I repaired the rod with by putting on a custom ferrule. 0.278 The ID of the female ferrule where it accepts the male slide is .187", or 12/64. At The Airport. (Peter Jones) to use it on trout other than the Yough, Savage River reservoir and some lakes. Purchased item: Leonard 38 - Bamboo Vintage Fly Rod Reproduction Bob Thompson Jun 4, 2021 Helpful? by dkrismer 06/12/16 20:36, Post Spotted lanternfly is an invasive plant hopper native to eastern Asia. In the upper left corner, in blue, you'll see the real measurements we took, for all 3 flats at each measurement point. (Lew) Parks. The 8014 taper was devised later in Lyle's life and reflects both this ma .350@40 I have a tough time roll casting over about 65' with any rod, no matter how long or limber. I just posted on the Rod Builders forum a 861711D Dickerson taper taken from a rod built in 1938 and restored by RW Summers in 2005. And you are of course correct in pointing out that stress numbers means nothing without the particulars of the line weight and length. This is, of course, wildly unsatisfactory, but all attempts to reduce the problem seem to last for only a short time. Cross Rods. I fail to see anything in the manor of specifications for your making a point that you feel there is a difference between the two, in fact I would like to show you that they are, under the right conditions, EXACTLY THE SAME. I am sure there are situations where a bit more length would be helpful, but who am I to argue with Mr. Dickerson? Anyway, far too few people concern themselves over what should be the staple obsession of every rodmaker-design. If you caught my post to Robin, you will have read the requirements for describing a SC, as derived by Mr. Everett Garrison in his book. 65 0.248 134403 But you also have the opportunity to add or remove material any ware alone the length of that rod and doing so will have an taper specific effect on the casting/fishing characteristics of the rod. 0.360 (Jay Hake). Your projected experiment may be described as simplistic and wasteful of time by some, but I think that you will learn a very great deal about what you personally like about taper rates. I'm satisfied with my bamboo fly rod, even though the female metal Ferrule opening was a little big and the male ferrule on the second section would slip out after a few cast. The point is this: a straight taper only leads to a flat stress curve, as you say, UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS. Using too small a ferrule may be a factor. The '51 is a bit softer. (Robin Haywood), This would be very easy, but would impact on other desirable qualities. If you want to see the justification for compound tapers look at the design of the Eiffel tower or any electricity pylon. : This is a 5 wt line SLT. 4 wt 0.0680 Both tapers conform to the shape broadly called parabolic and thus will have the shortcomings that all rods of this misconceived taper share. But more relevant and to the point, I bought a single tip Dickerson 7613 from John and he recently provided me with a second tip from pre-embargo cane and original Dickerson hardware, and the action is a dead ringer for the original Dickerson 7613. This rod belonged to rodbuilder Tim Bedford. (Gary Nicholson), So out of great curiosity then - how would you describe to me (someone who doesn't have a clue) how the action would feel or perform with regard to a "Straight Taper Rod" comparatively speaking. You have a rod with a taper of approximately 0.0028 per inch. I'm just curious if you have a procedure to do this compensation on the taper itself or if you do this by stress calculation methods? Now you have a rod in the length, line weight and number of section you want. (Al Baldauski). All he needed to do was speed up the butts, preferably with a concave taper form, and he would really have been cooking with gas!
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